Democratic Republic, RIP

[macms]

Well, it is done, Congress has voted that the United States is to be a socialist welfare state with a central command economy. They have passed the largest appropriation and spending bill in human history and fundamentally changed the nature of the Union.

I suspect if the majority of voices who opposed this spoke up or wrote their representatives and congressman and even burned a tire on a street corner...nothing will change the present course.

[zmancbr]

Unfortunately you are right. The Rep party has shifted toward being democratic and the Dem party has become firmly socialist... neither of which is a good thing for the future of this once great nation. :rolleyes:

[Spect]

Unfortunately you are right. The Rep party has shifted toward being democratic and the Dem party has become firmly socialist... neither of which is a good thing for the future of this once great nation. :rolleyes:

I hadn't thought of it this way but it really is the truth.

[glking]

Here comes socialized medicine!
The stimulus bill, the job-creation bill (so improperly named) creates a new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology. This new bureaucracy will monitor newly digitized medical records. There are rules-for-health care coverage in this bill, and they will affect every individual in the United States. You can consult if you want to go try to find a PDF copy of the bill you can find the references are on page 445, 454, and 479."
Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. The opportunity for the loss of privacy is huge here by digitizing and making everybody's health care records computerized, especially having a major federal database where everybody's health records are. This bill computerizes everybody's health records. Then after everybody's health records are computerized, this new bureaucracy is created, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology.
And he'll have a whole bureaucracy at his disposal that "will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective." The government will be in charge of what the doctor can do, and the kind of treatments that can be extended to you. "The goal [of the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology] is to reduce costs and 'guide' your doctor's decisions (442, 446).
Doctors have to join the federal community here in dolling out treatment so that it's fair and equitable. Hospitals and doctors that are not 'meaningful users' of the new system will face penalties. 'Meaningful user' isn't defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose 'more stringent measures of meaningful use over time' (511, 518, 540-541). The goal, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs.
This is scary if you are not young. You come down with a disease that is not immediately life-threatening. You go into your doctor. The doctor consults the federal database to get your health care records. He then has to consult this new health council board. They then figure the cost of treating whatever's wrong with you, based on the statistics that tell 'em how long you're going to live -- and if the cost vastly outweighs the number of years you're going to live, they will deny you treatment. The older you are, the more likely you are to have treatment denied simply because it isn't going be worth the money.

[webjunkie]

I'm going to try to not get into this (okay, completely and utterly failed at this, but what can I say, I'm an academic and naturally long winded), but I don't think that the nature of the union has been changed, since I thought the original purpose of the union was to get away from a monarchy that just kept taxing us without giving anything back.

The bailout of the banking industry wasn't that far behind this stimulus package (and the size of both of them piss me off to no end) and it was supported by then Senator Obama, then President Bush, and Senator McCain.

To put things in perspective the new deal cost, after adjusting for inflation, roughly $500 billion.

Do I think that this stimulus package, when coupled with the bailout passed in 2008, is too large and putting us further in debt? Yes. Do I like it? No.

Do I think it's the end of this country? No. We've survived worse and come out strong.

How do I feel about a national healthcare system? I dunno, but privatized medicine isn't working. There are too many people without access to proper care, who end up costing the state more money when they go in for emergency care instead of preventative care. The current system is broken with insurance companies and HMOs lining their pockets at their expense. Do I have a solution? No, but then again I specialize in Japanese literature and history. I could call for CEOs to apologize with seppuku, but I don't think it would accomplish much, aside from an increase in tv ratings.

One reason I love America is because we embrace the ideas of freedom of thought and the free exchange of ideas. I don't think that socialism is a viable system, but at the same time that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore an idea that a socialist had simply because he's a socialist. I agree that nationalized healthcare smacks of socialism, and there are privacy concerns. Still, we can't ignore an idea because of its origins. If it works and helps our fellow Americans, then I'm happy to pay more in taxes. It annoys me, but then again invading Iraq annoyed me and I didn't think that my taxes should have been spent that way. Of course we're there so that means we should do it right and give our men women in the military our support even if we didn't agree in the first place. I didn't agree with the Patriot Act because I felt that giving up our principles defeated the purpose of having them in the first place. There were also a hideous amount of privacy concerns. We'll figure things out.

Before everyone gets hot under the collar, I'm not a liberal or a conservative, since I don't agree with all things liberal or all things conservative. Nor am I democrat or a republican, because I don't agree with the full platforms of either party.

I don't want to start a fight, but I just wanted to point out that there is a differing viewpoint.



On a slightly different note, it was pointed out to me by a Chinese graduate student at CU that socialism doesn't exist and so far has never existed. Apparently in order to reach socialism, capitalism has to be completely wiped out, and the last time I checked that wasn't the case.

[moglman]

I don't do political debates because there are NEVER any winners. I am both a US and Canadian citizen and have views on Socialized Medicine. The US privatized medical model allows for innovation and excellence. It also leads to greed and need by different sectors.

Socialized medicine in Canada does not work either. Doctors don't stay because they can't make a decent living. There aren't enough doctors so most people get their standard medical care through the emergency room. The large majority have no PCP because those that are around can accept no more patients. Taxes are ridiculous to pay for this type of care. There is no consideration to preventative care or disease management to lower costs. Those with true medical emergencies are guaranteed insane wait times because of the volumes of people with colds. There is some good. Home care for the elderly or terminally ill is available. There is government help to all if you can be very patient.

Reformation of the US healthcare system is not as dire as the extreme left would like us to believe, and yet too little has been addressed in the past by the conservative and liberal government entities of the past 25 years. They had the opportunities but party lines were more important than fixing some basic issues, and thus little was done. They left it alone until a government was in power that no longer had to worry about bipartisan support. WTG!!

[macms]

I was just thinking, all these years of advancement in the black community, and Obama's still living in government housing. :rolleyes:

[zmancbr]

I was just thinking, all these years of advancement in the black community, and Obama's still living in government housing. :rolleyes:


:rofl::rofl::new_rofl::D:D:rofl::new_rofl:

I'm not even gonna comment on that...

[BigBruce]

I was just thinking, all these years of advancement in the black community, and Obama's still living in government housing. :rolleyes:

Thats not as bad as the news. Fox news the other day reported on the raccoon problem at the whitehouse :)

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/02/06/a_raccoon_update_from_the_whit.html?hpid=topnews