Beads & Humidity

[ethanjhall]

So, I've got a 50-can cooler, and I've got 2 lbs of 65 rh beads - my (admittedly not-so-trusty) hygrometer is reading a rh level of 80... is that normal? I just put the beads in a few days ago, does it need to stabilize?

I've got maybe 3 empty cigar boxes in there, my travel humi (open), and 30ish sticks, then 2 panty-hose leg tubes of 1lb each.

Do I have too many beads, or am I doing that wrong?

[sepp]

Did you wet the beads? Have you salt tested to calibrate the Hygro (at least this will give you a target point on the dial)?

[opusfxd]

Did you wet the beads?
No but the dog did. :rofl::rofl:

[sepp]

No but the dog did. :rofl::rofl:
Now that right there is funny...

[moglman]

If the cooler seals and you don't have standing water or sopping cigars, something is wrong and it shouldn't be the beads. When the beads are dry, they are white and clear when wet. The beads can be charged with a little distilled water in a spray bottle. About 1/2 clear is a good goal. The beads should pull moisture out of the air and stabalize at around 65%. This sounds like a bad hygrometer. If there is a ton of empty space, add empty cedar cigar boxes to take up some space. This will help keep stable.

[zmancbr]

This sounds like a bad hygrometer.

That's my thought... probably a hygro gone wild! :elefant:

[ethanjhall]

Yup, peed all over the beads with my special distilled water pee :)

What's this salt-test the hygro nonsense?

I calibrated it once... long ago....

[zmancbr]

Yup, peed all over the beads with my special distilled water pee :)

What's this salt-test the hygro nonsense?

I calibrated it once... long ago....

basically its just using some wet salt to test the accuracy of the Hygro...

Here is a good description:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=619

[physiognomy]

Ethan, I'm pretty sure I had the same issue when I set up my first cooler. Initially I wet the beads too much, but the rh stabilzed @ 65% after leaving them out in the open for a couple of hours. Just something you might try?

[opusfxd]

Keep about 70% clear and after that, trust the beads Luke. They'll suck up extra and dump their guts to keep them at their assigned level. It's all from art museum science stuff with all their expensive paintings and stuff. (I read it on the internet, gotta be true)

[ethanjhall]

Cool - I'll try the salt trick and will let you know if I'm still hosed.

[ethanjhall]

So I salt tricked it, and I was about 15% too high :) As soon as I opened the container, the gauge dropped like a stone, so I adjusted it, and now I'll need to recalibrate a few more times to make sure it's good.

Honestly, though - the hygro is a piecer (Thompson Cigars, baby), and I might like to get something better - suggestions, perhaps?

[moglman]

I suggest the wireless weather stations like Oregon Scientific (i.e. this one (http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3012383&CAWELAID=143650762)). They are accurate, many will accept up to three remote sensors (comes with one), and you can monitor temp and humidity without opening.

[ethanjhall]

Hm - didn't even think of going w/ a non cigar-related route. Nice work

[MCM]

Is there such a thing as a bad batch of beads? I ask because I recently (3 weeks ago) switched from 60% Heartfelt beads to 65% but I cannot keep the Rh up at all and I am actually showing 57% now!! I suppose I could have a faulty hygrometer but it seemed to be functioning fine before the switch.

[moglman]

Unlikely bad beads Mark, but I suppose it's possibly to have been mispackaged. It's been pretty dry the past few days (23%Rh yesterday according to the news). After verifying there are enough beads for your volume and checking your seals are air tight, I'd try bringing up the humidity with a small bowl of distilled water. Is this a cooler, desktop humi or what?

[MCM]

I have a Vino. Your point about the low humidity lately makes we wonder if I should plug the drain.

[ethanjhall]

I picked up one of the wireless weather stations - it was initially reading at 63 rh in my humi, so I'm calibrating it with the salt trick - will let you know.

[sepp]

Is the Vino Thermoelectric or compressor? A compressor driven system can suck the humidity out of the air each time the compressor kicks on.

[MCM]

Thermo, I have had it for about a year and until recently no problems. I think I will plug the drain this weekend and if that doesn't work I might order another 1/2 lb of beads. I think I had 2 lbs when I was running 60% beads but only have 1.5 lbs of 65% beads in there now.

[zmancbr]

Thermo, I have had it for about a year and until recently no problems. I think I will plug the drain this weekend and if that doesn't work I might order another 1/2 lb of beads. I think I had 2 lbs when I was running 60% beads but only have 1.5 lbs of 65% beads in there now.

Is the vino pretty full with cigars? If you have lots of cigars in there, its possible that they are all at 60% humidity and are slowing working their way back to 65%. This could take several weeks for them to acclimate to their new surroundings.

I wouldn't worry so much about the drain. I have 3 different vino units, and all 3 are running fine with the drain plugs open.

-One of mine is at 66/66% and it has older stock with only a half pound of beads.

-the second one has no cigars in it and a full pound of beads and is 65/65% solid.

-the third one is 66/69% and I think is because I just crammed a bunch of boxes that I just got in within the last 2 weeks so the humidity is slowing falling in those boxes. They tend to ship cigar to me really wet and it takes up to a month or more to stabilize them to ~65%.

[MCM]

Is the vino pretty full with cigars? If you have lots of cigars in there, its possible that they are all at 60% humidity and are slowing working their way back to 65%. This could take several weeks for them to acclimate to their new surroundings.

I wouldn't worry so much about the drain. I have 3 different vino units, and all 3 are running fine with the drain plugs open.

-One of mine is at 66/66% and it has older stock with only a half pound of beads.

-the second one has no cigars in it and a full pound of beads and is 65/65% solid.

-the third one is 66/69% and I think is because I just crammed a bunch of boxes that I just got in within the last 2 weeks so the humidity is slowing falling in those boxes. They tend to ship cigar to me really wet and it takes up to a month or more to stabilize them to ~65%.

I wouldn't call it full per se. I have 4 boxes and a pull out drawer that is fairly full. My hygro was reading 65% for awhile but lately has dropped off leading me to believe that I (a) have a seal issue and/or (b) I need more beads.

[mojo65]

I wouldn't call it full per se. I have 4 boxes and a pull out drawer that is fairly full. My hygro was reading 65% for awhile but lately has dropped off leading me to believe that I (a) have a seal issue and/or (b) I need more beads.

or C your hygro battery is taking a dump......disregard if its not a digital...:eyebrows:

[MCM]

or C your hygro battery is taking a dump......disregard if its not a digital...:eyebrows:

Ah yes, could be that as well.

[MCM]

Well, I have calibrated the hygrometer and I verified that I am reading 1% low so that isn't overly concerning. What is concerning though is I ordered an additional 1/2 lb of 65% beads bringing me to a total of 2.0 lbs and I am still showing 60%. I guess my next step will be to go ahead and plug the drain?

:noidea:

[moglman]

Sure sounds like a leak somewhere.

[MCM]

OK, now I am beginning to panic. Any advice is GREATLY appreciated.

I have plugged the drain and have 2.0 lbs of beads in the vino but I am showing 55% on the hygro!! :confused:

Could the beads be "bad"? I'm seriously considering going back to my 60% beads at this point. Another question I guess is it possible for the beads to be too wet? Seems counter to my problem since I would figure beads that were too wet would lead to higher Rh but at this point I am at my wits end and I do think I added too much water to my beads.

Help me Obi Wan CFRHN, you're my only hope. :pray:

[b0rderman]

How quickly do the beads turn completely white? Are you recharging them every day, every other day, twice a week, every week etc.?


If your beads are staying relatively clear I would suggest that your hygro is off, even though you calibrated it, hmmmm.

[jcarlton]

What temp is your Vino running?

[MCM]

How quickly do the beads turn completely white? Are you recharging them every day, every other day, twice a week, every week etc.?

If your beads are staying relatively clear I would suggest that your hygro is off, even though you calibrated it, hmmmm.

They haven't turned completely white, if anything they are too clear as in I added too much water.

Temperature is reading 66 deg.

[mojo65]

RH % will change with temperature.... Raise the temp and the RH will come up.
as I understand it. also with the cooler running less you wont pull as much humidity out.

As I understand it.

[moglman]

I don't think the beads are bad, or have never heard of it hapenning before. The first thing I'd do is try another hygrometer even though you calibrated the one you have, just to remove that variable. Don't add any more water to the beads if they are clear. If you place a bowl of distilled water on a shelf without any other changes, does the Rh rise? What happens if you place just the beads and hygrometer together in an airtight container? I will look around for a digital hygro that still has good batteries, but if I can't find one, someone should have one for testing. Does anything change if the vino is unplugged (not running) and not opened for a few days?

I haven't ever used a vino but start ruling things out one by one. It may end up being the beads, hygro or the vino itself that can't hold the humidity.

[Spect]

How are you introducing water to the beads? Are they in direct contact?

The intense friction caused by direct contact of these causes shattering of the beads leaving fewer pores/chanels for the water to be contained in; thus less capacity for humidity retention. That said, this shouldn't happen in a matter of weeks unless you've been giving your beads swimming lessons.

Some beads are 'conditioned' then locked at a specific RH and thus their threshold RH is not predetermined. The only way I know that beads of this nature can loose their threshold is via intense heat - ie: baking in an oven.

Borrow a hydrometer from someone. Check it out, if both read the same call Dave and get some new beads.

[MCM]

Wow, we have some certified bead experts here. Thanks for all of the great feedback. :hail:

I turned the temp up overnight, only a few degrees, and when I awoke this morning the Rh was pegged at 64. Needless to say I was relieved albeit not totally sold that the problem is solved. I will feel better if I get home later today and the Rh is still around that number.

[mojo65]

:rockon: keep us posted bro!